I will see it tonight for myself! First movie in a couple of months in theaters!!
Bond 24 - SPECTRE
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AndyDursin
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Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
Reviews trending mixed now that they're trickling in -- and I've seen a bunch claiming Craig sleepwalks his way through the film.
I will see it tonight for myself! First movie in a couple of months in theaters!!
I will see it tonight for myself! First movie in a couple of months in theaters!!
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AndyDursin
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Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
Saw it. Didn't like it. Thought Craig looked like he wanted to be anywhere else...in fact, it might be the singular worst performance by a Bond lead in this entire series. When Moore was done as Bond in "A View to a Kill," he was just too old -- not that he didn't care. Craig goes through the motions throughout this film, giving the same bored reaction whenever one of the major "plot twists" is revealed to him. If Bond doesn't care about what's going on, why should we?
A real huge disappointment, particularly given the stakes of the story. For any real Bond fan, this might've been the film you've been looking forward to, but it's lifeless and goes on FOREVER.
Review is up:
http://andyfilm.com/2015/11/04/11-11-15 ... n-edition/
A real huge disappointment, particularly given the stakes of the story. For any real Bond fan, this might've been the film you've been looking forward to, but it's lifeless and goes on FOREVER.
Review is up:
http://andyfilm.com/2015/11/04/11-11-15 ... n-edition/
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AndyDursin
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Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
One other thing I just thought about -- remember last year when the Sony hacks came out and the execs were worried about SPECTRE? Their comments were completely justified.
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DavidBanner
Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
Andy, are you saying that the Spectre script they were discussing in the hacked emails is essentially the same as what they filmed? I didn't read any of that stuff, not wanting to be spoiled. Are you saying they didn't make any changes or corrections, or that in a more general sense there was an issue that didn't get fixed?
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AndyDursin
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Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
I'd say it's both David. I did read the spoilers one time but it was a year ago so I honestly didn't recall them specifically going in. Looking over the article again, the script outline, as was spoiled, is absolutely identical save a couple of elements in the climax and, more significantly, the issue of Waltz's character identity -- which I still believe was always going in a certain direction. My guess is that they refrained from spoiling it in the drafts that circulated beyond the filmmakers and head of the studio? Perhaps it was "redacted" from what lower level Sony staffers read? I have a hard time believing that was changed just because of the hack, I'd imagine it was the intention all along.
The concerns the execs had with each other -- the flabbiness of it and the poor ending are all evident. Bond's actions at the end are poorly laid out in advance of it, which was another "issue." You have 4 credited writers and a running time that shouldve been taken down. One of the execs thought 20 pages should've been cut from the script and he/she was right. The movie comes off as unfocused and lifeless.
One thing they were wrong about -- the entire film was actually worse than they indicated as they thought only the final third had problems. As executed most of the picture is a dreary and dull slog, some of which I chalk up to Mendes and, yes, Craig, who looks absolutely lost in the film. Perhaps he had issues with the script as well, and in hindsight, one couldn't blame him.
The concerns the execs had with each other -- the flabbiness of it and the poor ending are all evident. Bond's actions at the end are poorly laid out in advance of it, which was another "issue." You have 4 credited writers and a running time that shouldve been taken down. One of the execs thought 20 pages should've been cut from the script and he/she was right. The movie comes off as unfocused and lifeless.
One thing they were wrong about -- the entire film was actually worse than they indicated as they thought only the final third had problems. As executed most of the picture is a dreary and dull slog, some of which I chalk up to Mendes and, yes, Craig, who looks absolutely lost in the film. Perhaps he had issues with the script as well, and in hindsight, one couldn't blame him.
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AndyDursin
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Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
Its also funny...the ending really only makes sense if it's read as a goodbye for Craig . It doesn't make a lot of sense within the context of the movie because its so poorly established .
Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
Damned shame. I expected more from this movie than the way this is shaping up to be.
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Paul MacLean
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Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
I've skipped reading you fellas' comments until I've posted my own impressions...
Well...I liked it. Quite a bit actually (though admittedly, I went into the film with low expectations, based on what I'd heard). It wasn't perfect, nor was it as good as Skyfall (much less Casino Royale) but it was considerably better than Quantum of Solace.
I thought the teaser was excellent (though the helicopter fight went on a bit long). The title song was lame and unremarkable, and a man singing in falsetto isn't really what you want for a Bond title song! (Still, it's a better tune than Licence to Kill or Die Another Day!).
Christoph Beck was adequate as Blofeld, but nothing special. And unlike You Only Live Twice, where the "mystery man with the cat" is finally revealed after several movies (creating a bombshell of a moment), this Blofeld merely shows up out of the blue to reveal "I was the bad guy all along" which felt a bit contrived. The mountain chase with the plane was also a little far-fetched (and too "Moore" for me), and seemed like a forced attempt to respond to the criticisms that the Craig films "aren't fun enough". Craig is, for good or ill (I say good myself) that of a more serious, "believable" Bond, and imposing the fanciful humor of the older 007 adventures doesn't work with his persona (especially when contrasted with the severe violence of other scenes -- like the murder at the Spectre meeting, and Blofeld's torture of Bond). The film was also rather indifferently photographed (where was Roger Deakins?).
I didn't care for the "drones" in much of Thomas Newman's action cues, but I thought the rest of the score was pretty good, and he seemed more free to "let loose" this time with some romantic lyricism here and there (though I would have liked an actual main theme). The climatic sequences were very effective, and it was great to see "M" and Moneypenny in on the action. Ralph Fiennes is terrific as "M" and I enjoyed how the film really allows his character to develop and be used in a proactive way. Same goes for Naiome Harris, who has the added appeal of being easily the most delicious thing that ever graced a Bond picture).
I also appreciated that the film addressed the danger of unchecked government surveillance "in the name of the greater good". And it was great to finally see the gunbarrel sequence open a Bond film. I loved the final scene with the Aston Martin DB5 too.
Overall, I do feel it could have been a little better. The car chase was a bit lacking in excitement, and the romantic angle felt a bit forced, but I liked Spectre better than For Your Eyes Only, A View To A Kill or any of the Brosnan movies. It's a solid Bond adventure -- maybe not one of the greats, but very good and worth revisiting.
Well...I liked it. Quite a bit actually (though admittedly, I went into the film with low expectations, based on what I'd heard). It wasn't perfect, nor was it as good as Skyfall (much less Casino Royale) but it was considerably better than Quantum of Solace.
I thought the teaser was excellent (though the helicopter fight went on a bit long). The title song was lame and unremarkable, and a man singing in falsetto isn't really what you want for a Bond title song! (Still, it's a better tune than Licence to Kill or Die Another Day!).
Christoph Beck was adequate as Blofeld, but nothing special. And unlike You Only Live Twice, where the "mystery man with the cat" is finally revealed after several movies (creating a bombshell of a moment), this Blofeld merely shows up out of the blue to reveal "I was the bad guy all along" which felt a bit contrived. The mountain chase with the plane was also a little far-fetched (and too "Moore" for me), and seemed like a forced attempt to respond to the criticisms that the Craig films "aren't fun enough". Craig is, for good or ill (I say good myself) that of a more serious, "believable" Bond, and imposing the fanciful humor of the older 007 adventures doesn't work with his persona (especially when contrasted with the severe violence of other scenes -- like the murder at the Spectre meeting, and Blofeld's torture of Bond). The film was also rather indifferently photographed (where was Roger Deakins?).
I didn't care for the "drones" in much of Thomas Newman's action cues, but I thought the rest of the score was pretty good, and he seemed more free to "let loose" this time with some romantic lyricism here and there (though I would have liked an actual main theme). The climatic sequences were very effective, and it was great to see "M" and Moneypenny in on the action. Ralph Fiennes is terrific as "M" and I enjoyed how the film really allows his character to develop and be used in a proactive way. Same goes for Naiome Harris, who has the added appeal of being easily the most delicious thing that ever graced a Bond picture).
I also appreciated that the film addressed the danger of unchecked government surveillance "in the name of the greater good". And it was great to finally see the gunbarrel sequence open a Bond film. I loved the final scene with the Aston Martin DB5 too.
Overall, I do feel it could have been a little better. The car chase was a bit lacking in excitement, and the romantic angle felt a bit forced, but I liked Spectre better than For Your Eyes Only, A View To A Kill or any of the Brosnan movies. It's a solid Bond adventure -- maybe not one of the greats, but very good and worth revisiting.
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Monterey Jack
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Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
My thoughts exactly...I'd give it a decent 7/10. And considering Andy gave Die Another Day three stars, I'd say he has some 'splainin' to do.Paul MacLean wrote: Well...I liked it. Quite a bit actually (though admittedly, I went into the film with low expectations, based on what I'd heard). It wasn't perfect, nor was it as good as Skyfall (much less Casino Royale) but it was considerably better than Quantum of Solace.
I loved the De Palma/Touch Of Evil opening shot, and appreciated that there was a bit more humor and gadgetry than previous installments. And the Gunbarrel is back, finally! 
Waltz is somewhat wasted, and his motivation strains credulity to the breaking point, but otherwise, I had fun with this.Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
Now this is the quick of it: what are the Bond girls like?Paul MacLean wrote: ...Naiome Harris, who has the added appeal of being easily the most delicious thing that ever graced a Bond picture).
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AndyDursin
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Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
YE SPOILERS AHEAD
I liked the opening a lot. I also liked portions of Newman's score -- the "Spectre theme" with its mysterious sound was much more up Newman's alley than his action scoring -- but eventually I was worn down by how much of it there was in the film. 100 minutes (or more?) of scoring in a Bond movie is ridiculous IMO -- especially in this film where nothing happens for long stretches at a time.
On balance, I definitely agree with Paul, it's a better score than SKYFALL, though did he even write a love theme, or just orchestrate the Sam Smith title song in the underscore? It's kind of like SKYFALL where a few people gave him credit for using the Adele song in a few cues which he also had nothing to do with.
One thing I also liked was the twist on the usual "sacrificial lamb" with Monica Bellucci. Obviously that whole role was really a throwaway (and probably a disappointment for many expecting her to play more of a part in the story) but it served a purpose and instead of killing her off, Mendes and the gaggle of writers did something different, which was appreciated.
Seriously though, thinking back on the movie, and along similar lines -- I found the stakes in general low. For a movie involving Spectre and Blofeld, what exactly did they do that was so bad? So they want to spy on everyone, well, so does every government. I felt the movie might've benefited from having Blofeld be Blofeld and actually do something beyond just kidnapping Bond's girl (which played out like M's kidnapping from The World is Not Enough) and having him run around in the catacombs looking for her, which only happens in the last 10 minutes of the movie.
As for the "Bond family" connection, perhaps if Craig was more emotive or looked like he gave a damn, I might've bought in or found an emotional component to it. Instead it was treated as if it were perfunctory and not particularly well developed either.
MJ -- I do not want to hear about you having an issue with long running times EVER AGAIN if you did not have a problem with THIS movie being absurdly 2.5 hours long. lol.
Of course, we're also arguing over the difference between giving it a 6/10 and a 7/10 too...so it's not in the big picture much of a disagreement.
I will say the film is better than QUANTUM OF SOLACE (nowhere near SKYFALL or CASINO ROYALE) which I should go back and re-review because it was worse on second viewing than the first time I saw it. DIE ANOTHER DAY is flawed and I didn't like it as much the 2nd time, but that film's tone and energy are wholly different than any of the Craig movies. What I liked about it is something MJ despises about all the Bond films with humor. It's more of a Roger Moore movie, and comparing a Roger Moore movie with a Craig film is like comparing two films from different genres. And I still firmly believe the first half, at least the set up, of the film was real good before it got silly and completely ridiculous.
I also think it ties in with how much you like Craig. I am obviously not a huge fan. I find him difficult to read at times and stone-faced most of the way in all four of these films -- and especially here, where his reaction to everything that happens is one of two different expressions basically -- and I'm just not a big fan of his as an actor. He's like the modern British equivalent of Charles Bronson, who made a career out of saying little but looking pissed off or constipated. That worked fine in "Death Wish" but in a James Bond movie I've always found something fundamentally lacking from Craig's "brutish" interpretation. Dalton was also "serious" and "intense" in his two films (especially Licence to Kill) but he managed to be much more expressive an actor by comparison.
I liked the opening a lot. I also liked portions of Newman's score -- the "Spectre theme" with its mysterious sound was much more up Newman's alley than his action scoring -- but eventually I was worn down by how much of it there was in the film. 100 minutes (or more?) of scoring in a Bond movie is ridiculous IMO -- especially in this film where nothing happens for long stretches at a time.
On balance, I definitely agree with Paul, it's a better score than SKYFALL, though did he even write a love theme, or just orchestrate the Sam Smith title song in the underscore? It's kind of like SKYFALL where a few people gave him credit for using the Adele song in a few cues which he also had nothing to do with.
One thing I also liked was the twist on the usual "sacrificial lamb" with Monica Bellucci. Obviously that whole role was really a throwaway (and probably a disappointment for many expecting her to play more of a part in the story) but it served a purpose and instead of killing her off, Mendes and the gaggle of writers did something different, which was appreciated.
To quote John Scott, "I didn't!"I liked Spectre better than For Your Eyes Only
I must have missed the Bernie Sanders bumper sticker on your car! lolI also appreciated that the film addressed the danger of unchecked government surveillance "in the name of the greater good".
Seriously though, thinking back on the movie, and along similar lines -- I found the stakes in general low. For a movie involving Spectre and Blofeld, what exactly did they do that was so bad? So they want to spy on everyone, well, so does every government. I felt the movie might've benefited from having Blofeld be Blofeld and actually do something beyond just kidnapping Bond's girl (which played out like M's kidnapping from The World is Not Enough) and having him run around in the catacombs looking for her, which only happens in the last 10 minutes of the movie.
As for the "Bond family" connection, perhaps if Craig was more emotive or looked like he gave a damn, I might've bought in or found an emotional component to it. Instead it was treated as if it were perfunctory and not particularly well developed either.
Waltz was about as intimidating as a bad guy in Scooby Doo revealing his true intentions. "I'm the architect of all ya pain, James!" lol. No, he wasn't on-screen enough, but frankly, he didn't really deliver either in the sequences he had.Waltz is somewhat wasted, and his motivation strains credulity to the breaking point, but otherwise, I had fun with this.
MJ -- I do not want to hear about you having an issue with long running times EVER AGAIN if you did not have a problem with THIS movie being absurdly 2.5 hours long. lol.
Of course, we're also arguing over the difference between giving it a 6/10 and a 7/10 too...so it's not in the big picture much of a disagreement.
I will say the film is better than QUANTUM OF SOLACE (nowhere near SKYFALL or CASINO ROYALE) which I should go back and re-review because it was worse on second viewing than the first time I saw it. DIE ANOTHER DAY is flawed and I didn't like it as much the 2nd time, but that film's tone and energy are wholly different than any of the Craig movies. What I liked about it is something MJ despises about all the Bond films with humor. It's more of a Roger Moore movie, and comparing a Roger Moore movie with a Craig film is like comparing two films from different genres. And I still firmly believe the first half, at least the set up, of the film was real good before it got silly and completely ridiculous.
I also think it ties in with how much you like Craig. I am obviously not a huge fan. I find him difficult to read at times and stone-faced most of the way in all four of these films -- and especially here, where his reaction to everything that happens is one of two different expressions basically -- and I'm just not a big fan of his as an actor. He's like the modern British equivalent of Charles Bronson, who made a career out of saying little but looking pissed off or constipated. That worked fine in "Death Wish" but in a James Bond movie I've always found something fundamentally lacking from Craig's "brutish" interpretation. Dalton was also "serious" and "intense" in his two films (especially Licence to Kill) but he managed to be much more expressive an actor by comparison.
Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
My random thoughts after seeing it last night:
-Opening scene, with the long take, was great. The Helicopter fight was pretty good. Best part of the movie- the rest of the action scenes were dull.
-The song is bad. Sam Smith is not meant to be a Bond singer. Alamo Drafthouse plays random related things before the show, and they played Wierd Al's "Spy Hard" opening titles. It was better. Newman's score was annoying, just constant percussion during the action. Bring back David Arnold.
-Opening titles were just yucky. If I wanted to see tentacles and half naked chicks I'd watch Asian porn.
-how does the ring of one person contain the DNA of every person Bond killed? Do people not shower with the ring on? Wouldn't it wash off?
-the henchman (Hinx? Name was never mentioned) was pretty lame. Oddjob never said a word either, but was more memorable.
-can we please have a Bond movie where he isn't either "outdated" or "gone rogue". Him actually being supported by Her Majesty's Government would be great. It's the same as the Mission Impossible films, where the IMF is always being shut down.
-Train fight. It was well shot and exciting, but was ruined by one thing. Where were all the OTHER PEOPLE on the train? They all disappeared as soon as the fight started. They fight through the kitchen, the storage cars, where are the cooks and waiter that we just saw? The train is destroyed, yet Bond and the girl simple go back to the cabin and get it on? The train doesn't stop?
-C. You know he's bad the minute you see him. He was Moriarity for pete's sake! That whole sideplot was a waste.
-I agree with above posts: Daniel Craig seemed bored. No reaction to who the main villian is?
-horrible ending. Bond has no problem killing 100 other people, but the main bad guy he has qualms about? Lame. The original leaked script had him being killed. The tacked on scene with the car was just so the movie wasn't totally depressing.
-After reading how the original script was (no super intelligence agency, simple drama over a leaked document. Bad guy's lesbian sidekick who has the hots for the main actress), I guess this was an improvement, but honestly, I'd rather watch Man with the Golden Gun. Or even Die Another Day. At least those weren't overlong and dull.
Mission Impossible 4 was by far a better "Bond" movie.
-Opening scene, with the long take, was great. The Helicopter fight was pretty good. Best part of the movie- the rest of the action scenes were dull.
-The song is bad. Sam Smith is not meant to be a Bond singer. Alamo Drafthouse plays random related things before the show, and they played Wierd Al's "Spy Hard" opening titles. It was better. Newman's score was annoying, just constant percussion during the action. Bring back David Arnold.
-Opening titles were just yucky. If I wanted to see tentacles and half naked chicks I'd watch Asian porn.
-how does the ring of one person contain the DNA of every person Bond killed? Do people not shower with the ring on? Wouldn't it wash off?
-the henchman (Hinx? Name was never mentioned) was pretty lame. Oddjob never said a word either, but was more memorable.
-can we please have a Bond movie where he isn't either "outdated" or "gone rogue". Him actually being supported by Her Majesty's Government would be great. It's the same as the Mission Impossible films, where the IMF is always being shut down.
-Train fight. It was well shot and exciting, but was ruined by one thing. Where were all the OTHER PEOPLE on the train? They all disappeared as soon as the fight started. They fight through the kitchen, the storage cars, where are the cooks and waiter that we just saw? The train is destroyed, yet Bond and the girl simple go back to the cabin and get it on? The train doesn't stop?
-C. You know he's bad the minute you see him. He was Moriarity for pete's sake! That whole sideplot was a waste.
-I agree with above posts: Daniel Craig seemed bored. No reaction to who the main villian is?
-horrible ending. Bond has no problem killing 100 other people, but the main bad guy he has qualms about? Lame. The original leaked script had him being killed. The tacked on scene with the car was just so the movie wasn't totally depressing.
-After reading how the original script was (no super intelligence agency, simple drama over a leaked document. Bad guy's lesbian sidekick who has the hots for the main actress), I guess this was an improvement, but honestly, I'd rather watch Man with the Golden Gun. Or even Die Another Day. At least those weren't overlong and dull.
Mission Impossible 4 was by far a better "Bond" movie.
Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
Sounds like it's just a better movie, period.BobaMike wrote:
Mission Impossible 4 was by far a better "Bond" movie.
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Paul MacLean
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Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
AndyDursin wrote:To quote John Scott, "I didn't!"I liked Spectre better than For Your Eyes Only
For me, FYEO is a bit tedious. It's good, and I appreciated its more realistic tone, but I found it a bit flat (and honestly felt it was harmed by Bill Conti's score). Spectre is not perfect but I just found it more entertaining.
I've always liked Craig myself. While he is not the comedian some of the previous 007s were, he brings his own unique approach to the role, and I appreciate him for being different, and more believable -- a man who does what he does for a living would have jaded, grim attitude. Thus a criticism one could level at Spectre was that its attempt to impose "fun" action sequences (which stretch credibility) just doesn't jibe with Craig's interpretation of the role. However I do think he played off the humor well, in a subtle and understated way (as in the teaser when he lands on the sofa).AndyDursin wrote: I also think it ties in with how much you like Craig.
One thing I would add -- Blofeld's character seemed to be a retread of past Bond villains (yet ironically not past Blofelds). Like Sean Bean Goldeneye, this Blofeld was close to Bond in the past but now wants to exact revenge on him. And like Javiar Bardem in Skayfall, he is a mysterious figure that can hack into every mainframe on the planet, and leads Bond on a chase through derelict London buildings at the climax. I also felt Blofeld's character lacked sufficient menace. I don't blame Christoph Waltz (who is a magnificent actor); the character as written was simply too "lite". This would not have have been such a big deal had he merely been playing "this year's bad guy" but Blofeld is a larger-than-life villain who goes back to the Connery days -- a ruthless, megalomaniacal thug, and this character did not exhibit these traits.
But in spite of it all, I still enjoyed the film, and will be buying the Blu-ray!
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AndyDursin
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Re: Bond 24 - SPECTRE
I'm with BobaMike on this film!
I place SPECTRE down at the very bottom of the series and also have no desire to sit through it again. So yeah, if given a choice, I'd also pick DIE ANOTHER DAY over it.
Here's a movie that has Monica Bellucci and Christoph Waltz on-screen for probably about a quarter of its running time and yet goes on for 150 minutes. Seriously? WHY did this movie need to be as endless as it was?
Make no mistake, these are all IMO "low tier" Bond movies we're discussing but I'm going to avoid the longest running time in franchise history if I have a choice.
Onto a few of Paul's points:
There, I didn't even have to say it!honestly, I'd rather watch Man with the Golden Gun. Or even Die Another Day. At least those weren't overlong and dull.
I place SPECTRE down at the very bottom of the series and also have no desire to sit through it again. So yeah, if given a choice, I'd also pick DIE ANOTHER DAY over it.
Here's a movie that has Monica Bellucci and Christoph Waltz on-screen for probably about a quarter of its running time and yet goes on for 150 minutes. Seriously? WHY did this movie need to be as endless as it was?
Make no mistake, these are all IMO "low tier" Bond movies we're discussing but I'm going to avoid the longest running time in franchise history if I have a choice.
The character did nothing for me either and I felt his introduction was sadistic and gross. Shades of the Tyrell death in BLADE RUNNER isn't exactly what i want to see in a Bond film. (Speaking of which Bond's interrogation scene managed to be disgusting also without being suspenseful).the henchman (Hinx? Name was never mentioned) was pretty lame. Oddjob never said a word either, but was more memorable.
Didn't work for me either. I interpreted that tacked-on bit as being more of a goodbye for Daniel Craig as James Bond than a proper ending to this story.horrible ending. Bond has no problem killing 100 other people, but the main bad guy he has qualms about? Lame. The original leaked script had him being killed. The tacked on scene with the car was just so the movie wasn't totally depressing.
Also agreed. That film had far better executed set-pieces than anything in SPECTRE -- particularly the opera sequence early on.Mission Impossible 4 was by far a better "Bond" movie.
Onto a few of Paul's points:
Agreed, FYEO is bloated, but flat and tedious are exactly how I would describe SPECTRE, which drags on for another 20 minutes beyond FYEO -- for no good reason.For me, FYEO is a bit tedious. It's good, and I appreciated its more realistic tone, but I found it a bit flat
That's a personal preference thing. For me I'd take Conti over a bland Thomas Newman score every time also -- dated or not dated, at least FYEO had a great theme anchoring it (which this didn't) and wasn't scored wall-to-wall like a cartoon.(and honestly felt it was harmed by Bill Conti's score).