I don't WANT this movie - or Williams music - to be bad. Again, it's not the way his music or career should be remembered as. But the more these marketing featurettes try to energize the excitement with nostalgia and praise, the more you could see it as the last-minute attempt to bolster the profile of this damaged production. If we were to try and take the history of the troubled production out of the equation, then I'd feel more heartfelt about this send-off.

I know the principals (Ford, Williams) - as a matter of professionalism - do not want to damage the Indiana Jones brand, Lucasfilm, or Disney. Nevertheless, they're also conscious enough of their fanbase and legacy to speak their mind, when necessary, regardless of intentional or unintentional consequences.

Exactly, like when Williams said he was still writing music (for one of the myriad endings) earlier this year, and then Mangold flat out lied and said that wasn't happening. Well, one person is right and the other has no dignity to speak of.

Edmund Kattak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:46 pm I don't WANT this movie - or Williams music - to be bad. Again, it's not the way his music or career should be remembered as.

That's the thing -- I am elated John Williams is still with us...but I wish there were movies worthy of his talent and artistry for him to work on.

I can't say I care for this piece much at all. It's got a heavy SCHINDLER'S LIST feel which, for this type of movie, seems entirely disconnected. There are "lots of notes" and even though it's 5 minutes long, it's hard to ever get a "feel" for the actual theme, which never used to be an issue with Williams' writing.

I almost wonder if this is (or is mostly derived from) a piece he composed at an earlier point, didn't know what to do with, and then shoehorned into this particular movie -- and used as another "soloist vehicle" for Nutter as well.

So Harrison Ford confirmed what John Williams said which is what Doomcock has been saying all along about reshoots and the ending being redone.

Once again, Mangold was flat out lying about this. And we know who was right!

AndyDursin wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:17 pm Once again, Mangold was flat out lying about this. And we know who was right!

Don't worry, Mangold will 'fess up to what really happened and how he really feels about the movie...five years from now, when the paycheck has long since been spent.

Rewatched CRYSTAL SKULL with Theo last night.

It's funny, the concept of the movie isn't terrible -- I kind of like the alien thing as a "contemporary" fantasy angle (which may not be so fantastical now after all!) -- it's the execution that is problematic. The overall look of the film is so dreary, takes place at night, and the set pieces are poorly executed. It just wasn't Spielberg at his best, no way around it. I'm guessing this script may have read fine but the visualization was a total failure, it really does look like a 50s movie with fake blue-screen, missing the real location work of the first three movies, and was bogged down by a needlessly convoluted plot and scenes that dragged on interminably (that opening warehouse scene should've been cut in half!).

There are some issues with the script too... way too much plot involving the skull and the John Hurt character (who we all guess was supposed to be Sean Connery before he said no), uninteresting villains, and why is Marion even there? She's "present" but hardly says anything. If you took all of Karen Allen's lines and edited them together it would barely comprise 5 minutes of time. Weird.

One other thing I noticed this time was Ford. He doesn't look good in this film. Nearly all of his dialogue in the first 30 minutes appeared to be looped, as it did in other parts of the picture. I wonder if he was going through something health wise at the time of filming.

I did like the last scene and you can see where the movie was trying to push a "family component" in its premise as Last Crusade did, but the languid pacing and lack of energy doom it from working. There's just no life in this movie.

All that being said it still felt more "legitimate" than these Disney remakes since George and Steven were involved, and Williams' score I liked better than most of his work on the SW sequels. Just wasn't crazy about how he used the Raiders theme at the end credits, that arrangement wasn't so hot.

Muahahahahahahahahaha.

AndyDursin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 9:32 am The overall look of the film is so dreary, takes place at night, and the set pieces are poorly executed.

And that chase through the Harvard campus was an embarrassment. I was also distracted in the cafe scene by the way that female extra in the background was lit to be noticed -- and perfectly in focus. Come to find out it was (surprise, surprise) one of Spielberg's own kids.

All that being said it still felt more "legitimate" than these Disney remakes since George and Steven were involved, and Williams' score I liked better than most of his work on the SW sequels. Just wasn't crazy about how he used the Raiders theme at the end credits, that arrangement wasn't so hot.

I felt the the performance of the score lacked the passion and energy which the London Symphony gave to the original Raiders score.

Personally, I think Williams should have recorded ALL the Indiana Jones (and quite a few of his others) scores with the London Symphony.

Looks like the digital album is available online. The usual FSM complainers - No End Credits, some "Star Wars" inspired music in the "Germany, 1944" track. I will have a listen later. I guess some over there are expecting a "90-minute Empire Strikes Back Double-Album" in this day and age.

"Descargar Bandas Sonoras" has it. Sssshhh.

Just from listening for a few, it's just what I expected, and I'm not sure I'm going to get through this in a single listen. Very scattered, little thematic tissue happening, and just not that "musical" for my tastes. Probably not enough themes in this score to generate an End Credits regrettably too...this Helena's Theme is kind of it.

This is probably the first time an action/adventure score put me to sleep.................................zzzzzzzzzzzzz

What I think is odd is how little the Indy theme is used. It's Helena's theme everywhere! Of course it's a long movie, and I would guess we are missing an hour of music. Did Williams leave off all the stuff he didn't conduct? Or did his rewriting of the ending cause it to be left off the soundtrack?

I like the score, but it is very odd for an Indy movie.

BobaMike wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:15 am What I think is odd is how little the Indy theme is used. It's Helena's theme everywhere! Of course it's a long movie, and I would guess we are missing an hour of music. Did Williams leave off all the stuff he didn't conduct? Or did his rewriting of the ending cause it to be left off the soundtrack?

I like the score, but it is very odd for an Indy movie.

It seems very low energy, sparsely orchestrated compared to the previous Indy scores. Even CRYSTAL SKULL seemed more "dense" in orchestrations and a bit more exciting than this. When the Indy theme comes in, it's usually in the forefront with nothing or not too much going on behind it. I guess if you write a score this sparse then it becomes pretty easy to get 2 hours plus of music with the help of two or three orchestrators. At 91, it certainly shows that he has a limited spectrum that he can work with. Now add in the noise of modern filmmaking and what chance does he really have.

The "Helena Theme" doesn't bother or impress me, but it seems out of place for the time period AND the character. It sounds like it would be appropriate for a late 1940's Lauren Becall or someone of that noir era. Musically, for dramatic underscore, 1969 was a weird time for cinematic scoring and that type of theme would be out of place. So I guess Williams felt that using this style would seem more appropriate for an Indiana Jones adventure in the late 1960's. This again, cuts to the heart of absurdity considering the whole franchise has hinged on paying homage to the 1930's serials, Crystall Skull notwithstanding.

I agree with Andy about Crystal Skull channeling the archetype of a 1950's "B" movie. For me that early scene when the Russian infiltrators reach the guard gate and gun down the MP's - the visual style of Kaminski's blown-out backfill lighting instantly reminded me of a late 50's "B" movie like THE BLOB. At least that score seemed grounded in INDIANA JONES mode, albeit it may not be a favorite of many (I have warmed up to it a bit over the years in its complete form.

But this score? It's hard to say at this point if the best parts are on this early iteration. Who knows what the eventual CD may hold.